Model for America’s Demise: The Western Roman Empire

by sobl1
The Roman Empire around the year 271 AD, with ...

The Roman Empire around the year 271 AD, with the break away Gallic Empire in the West and the break away Palmyrene Empire in the East. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Everybody can feel the decline and decay. Even doughy Boomers who spent their life voting for liberal after liberal now see that they are standing at the threshold of hell. It gets kind of boring constantly commenting on the slip into the coming dark age. As a lover of history, I have read up on different declines and tried to figure out which path is the one America will most likely take. As an optimist and having recency bias, I considered the decline of the British Empire as our model. The USA like the UK borrowed too much, fought too many wars of choice in far off lands, and its leadership turned its back on faith and tradition. Firepower harps on the decline of the Western Roman Empire as our model, and I will now throw in my lot with that assessment. America will go down like the Western Roman Empire from self-inflicted wounds, betrayal by its elite, and invasion by barbarians.

The Western Roman Empire was created later as the Roman Empire had grown too large to properly administer and had too long of a frontier to defend. Even before the split, the Empire had spent far too much loot on importing luxuries for the elite. The Empire also had run out of productive agricultural lands to raid, plunder, conquer and rule. By the time of the split, Rome itself was not the seat of power, Ravenna had taken over as the Emperor’s home. Still, even in 400, there was glory in Rome. The barbarians would end that.

The Western Empire had seen its elite and everyday citizens participate less and less with defense, and more was subcontracted to barbarians of all stripes. In the 4th Century, Rome and the fertile lands of central Italy were sacked four times, with only the Pope preventing Atilla the Hun from making it five times. The last sack would be the end of the Western Empire, and it was performed by a man, Theoderic the Great, and a people, the Ostrogoths, that have some parallels to our modern American situation.

Map of the "barbarian" invasions of ...

Map of the “barbarian” invasions of the Roman Empire showing the major incursions from 100 to 500 CE. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Theoderic was a warrior leader of the Ostrogoths who was educated at the Eastern Empire court. His people had fought for the Empire at times but also had created massive havoc in Eastern provinces. Theoderic’s people were always clamoring for a home of their own. Theoderic played his cards right and with skill, sacked Rome, removed the show Western Emperor, did not allow a new phony emperor to be crowned, and played nice with the Romans as he ruled. Ostrogoths set up shop and lived well. If the Ostrogoths were a minority in Italy, how did they rule? They treated the elite land owning Romans very well. The elite large estate patricians were happy with their treatment because Theoderic did not disrupt the status quo, and allowed them to keep their wealth.

A barbarian minority of limited education? Check. The barbarians come from another area that they are oppressed and blocked from ruling? Check. Exhausted culture of the target area? Check. An elite that was fine with whomever ruled as long as they kept their wealth? Check. Prior disturbances in target area by other barbarians that did not incite vengeance by the elite? Check. A civil administration that would take orders from whomever held the crown? Check. Let’s just hope the Mexicans don’t find their Theoderic. If we were to look for him, he’ll probably have tattoos and a Harvard degree in Spanish.

20 Comments to “Model for America’s Demise: The Western Roman Empire”

  1. Reblogged this on News You May Have Missed and commented:
    Model for America’s Demise: The Western Roman Empire – Everybody can feel the decline and decay. Even doughy Boomers who spent their life voting for liberal after liberal now see that they are standing at the threshold of hell.

  2. What do you think of Glubb’s The Fate of Empires? (25 pages)

  3. Racists are the oppressed ones that don’t have a home. We don’t have a country clean and clear on this Earth. What’s important is not the amount of education but the recognition of a simple rule: might makes right.

    I don’t mind cutting a deal with the elite. I have even decided that loyalty to the white race is more important than blood or race. Whoever is in power has the power to make or unmake the nobility.

    • The elite, like many people, worship the paycheck god MW talks about. They do what they do and confess the creed that gets them paid. Lindsey Graham and Juan McCain would quote Mein Kampf on nation television if it meant staying in power. They’ll do whatever it takes, and if it means going along with WN they’ll do it in a heartbeat.

  4. I have long thought this.

    Spot on, meng.

  5. Actually the German tribes of the 5th century did not destroy the Western Roman Empire, they merely replaced the existing Roman elite. The economy, culture and civic life continued much as before with a new set of rulers. The actual destruction of the civilization in the West occurred went the Arabs and their Muslim allies shut down the Mediterranean Sea and collapsed commerce.

  6. he was a “foederati”, there is essentially no difference between a foederati and a modern day mexer police officer or marine, the romans had by theo’s time an entirely non-latin (gothic/germanic) generalship and military, when the romans got too drunk and fagged around too much the german generals hauled the leader out and killed him, i believe it was oadacer who may have “officially” ended the western roman empire, but whatever

  7. Isn’t it time to stop thinking like passive subjects of a declining empire [:::yawn:::] and more like conquerors such as Theoderic the Great (i.e., Dietrich von Bern)?

    [ed note: yes, the problem being that today, we have too many Theoderics and NOT ENOUGH troops; and those troops are pure pizza-grazing gamers.]

    • Ha. We’ll have to cook up a new term for it. Doomer porn? OMG, the sky is falling! CLS chicken little syndrome?

      It doesn’t help the cause much to worry about the decline. It’s almost like obsessing about negro crime figures.

      • sobl1′s assessment is correct.

        Majors on down may not need to know this, but Colonels on up – do.
        Historical analysis studiously applied to adjusted, current conditions is far more valuable in its contribution than Marky-Mark Butterworth’s Foxhole Fantasy And then, they brought the blacks in….http://wp.me/p2kmGE-1D0

        Now, if the field troops need yet more Scary Paintings on The Cave Wall and spooky stories by the campfire – OK, if it gets them off their ass. Still, have we not already read The Turner Diaries? That book is decades old; it’s open availability has done nothing.

        Nor The Camp of The Saints
        Not even Unintended Consequences 1000 pp. 4″ thick tome.
        I’ve read them all.

        If it all continues like it has (and, I think it will)
        what will be is: A repeat of educated clerics reading
        Scary Fables from a Big Book
        On a monastic mountaintop
        To wide-eyed do-nothings
        As pillagers ravage the valleys

        • Wow! You’ve read Unintended Consequences too? Fanatastic book. It motivated me to learn more about gun culture. McVeigh said that was the model he should have used. I’m hesitant to review it because at 1000 pages, very few will invest the 17 hours to read it.

          [ed note: I indeed read it all.]

  8. Let’s just hope the Mexicans don’t find their Theoderic. If we were to look for him, he’ll probably have tattoos and a Harvard degree in Spanish.

    Mark Rubio want this role, but I think that we’re going to get another (George P.) Bush.

  9. One could include the forgotten powers of Armada Spain and Napoleonic France. Rome’s contemporary, Persia – or any one of several Chinese empires.

    Rome is applicable because the cause was moronic Roman government dealing with an influx of Illegals – Goths, Vandals, Huns, Lombards etc – who wanted a piece of the Roman Pie. They “wanted the Roman/American Dream” and crossed that border no matter the consequences. Immigrants diluted and destroyed an already decayed Roman culture.

    Roman elites preferred playing games of court intrigues while gibbering barbarians despoiled the nation. McCain and Rubio fiddle while Obama, Reid and Schumer skullfuck the crumbling greatness of a past nation.

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